Mustard Plug Interview

by Dave Sharp on Nov 16^th, 2010

Way, way back in 1991 in Grand Rapids, Michigan (of all places) a new wave to follow up the huge 2-tone burst from the likes of The Specials and The Untouchables was brewing. Mustard Plug has witnessed the evolution of an entire music genre, including a huge rise and fall of ska around 1996. Dave Kirchgessner, an original member of Mustard Plug weighs in on this from an insiders viewpoint in an conversation with Sinizine.net during their stint on the Ska is Dead Tour of fall 2004 with Catch 22, Big D and the Kids Table, Dan Potthast and Suburban Legends.

Sinizine.net would like to Ana Calderon of Hopeless Records and Dave Kirchgessner of Mustard Plug for their aid in the coordination of this interview.

SN: Awesome. I’ve heard you guys talk a lot about how the ska audience is getting a whole lot younger. I mean, look at this kid here; he’s twelve. [ed. I pointed at my younger brother] Is that a big change from 1991?

DK: Its definitely a big change from 1991. It hasn’t changed much since like 1995 or 1996, it’s always been young since then. In 1991 ska was like a college-age bar scene. Back in 1991, there were very few all-ages venues, that’s probably a big part of it. When I first started to go see ska shows in the late 80’s, early 90’s, there weren’t really all-ages venues, its kinda strange, but there weren’t. At least not small ones. I mean, if you went to see Motley Crue back then, then yeah, it’d be all ages. In the 80’s there were all-ages punk shows at halls and stuff. People don’t remember too well, but punk damn near died out around 1989. All the venues and that whole scene just kind of shrunk, atrophied. The first bands to really start touring the United States were Bim Skala Bim and The Toasters. And they’d be touring mainly college bars and stuff like that. There was an older crowd that generally just got younger and younger with the all-ages thing. It’s been about the same since.

SN: Has that any affect on the way the shows play out? I mean, what’s the difference between the shows in 1991—besides the ages—and the shows today?

DK: Well, there is some good and some bad. They’ve gotten younger, the young kids are most enthusiastic, a lot more about music and stuff. They’re more enthusiastic and they buy more t-shirts [laughs] and that sort of thing. I don’t know if its because of a young thing or an old thing, but one thing that has changed since then is that the scene is much more generic, where when we first started it was a lot more influenced by the two-tone thing in England; a lot more kids would wear suits—and actually good suits. You’d have scooters at the shows and skinheads; it was more of like what people think of as a ska culture or whatever. There were some good things about that and some bad, but now its just a more generic crowd, I guess. You look around, like right now, I don’t see a single liberty spiked mohawk here. You know what I mean? It is not really that punk. It is like high school kids out having a good time, which is really cool. But I mean, coming back in the late 80s early 90s, like going to a punk or ska show was a lot more dangerous. It would be like, in different cities it depends, but like almost like gangs, not gangs in like selling crack gangs, but in Detroit, you had different gangs. You had certain skinhead gangs and certain punks gangs, LA is kind of like that too, I think. But, in the punk scene in the late ‘80s early ‘90s, you’d go to New York or whatever and the meanest people were the vegan hardcore people. If you were in leather, they would fucking beat your ass down. Stuff like that. There would be more fights at the shows, more bullshit, more tension. It was a little bit more dangerous. I think a lot of people worked hard to eliminate a lot of the name elements in the scene, which is cool that you can go to a show and not be watching your back all the time. But, on the other hand [laughs], it is a little less interesting too. So I don’t know.

SN: You guys signed with Hopeless in ‘96, right?

DK: Yep. I think so.

SN: They’ve been making a name for themselves off of their hardcore/metal fusions like Avenged Sevenfold and Thrice.

DK: They have, yeah [laughs].

SN: Do you guys feel– right now, when that is what they are pushing– do you guys feel, I don’t know if this is the right word, but neglected in any manner? Or is it just the ska way, to be put on the back burner?

DK: Yeah, I mean, yes we do. We feel a little neglected. I don’t know. It is hard for me because I am very biased on this. It feels like we are not getting as much attention as we use to. We are definitely not getting as much attention as Avenged Sevenfold and Thrice, who are making shit loads of money. It is hard because, from my prospective, I am like ‘That sucks!’ But, from their perspective, they have to run a business so they can keep the label around and keep it going. But its difficult, definitely.

SN: How long from when it started– when Mustard Plug started– how long did it take you guys to make it to where you making a living solely on your music? Or have you yet?

DK: I think we started making a living around ‘96. About ‘97, ‘98, ‘99 we could live off the band, the it kind of crashed [laughs] and now it is like a part time job for us in a lot of ways.

SN: You guys have done a relatively good job at keeping members around. I didnt know about Rick [ed. The new guitarist I met at the merch table]. I didn’t hear about that. I mean since..

DK: We have a new drummer and a new bass player this year.

SN: Really? That is your third drummer, isn’t it?

DK: Yes it is. Wait, four! That’s our fourth drummer.

SN: Well, relatively, I mean…

DK: Considering its been like 13 years [laughs]. Yeah, that’s not too bad.

SN: Even compared to Catch 22. They’ve been around half as long as you and they’ve gone through a lot of big changes. Has it been complicated trying to keep members around?

DK: Its tough. For any band that has that many members and has been around that long of time, its tough. You know, people just go different directions in life. Think about this: We’re a six-piece band. If we were a three-piece band, we would make twice as much money [laughs]! You know what I mean? So, it is harder to be a ska band and keep members because frankly, unless you are making a shit load of money like Less Than Jake or something, you are barely scraping by. People are like, how long can I go on making no money? At a certain point, I have to get a real job. So I mean, it is harder, it’s that much harder for bands like us.

SN: Based on that, what do you project in the future? I read an interview a couple of years ago; ‘99, I think it was, or 2000– right before you guys celebrated 10 years. I’m not sure if it was you, to be honest. One member was saying they weren’t sure they’d be playing when they were 40, but back when you guys started, you weren’t sure if you’d be playing when you’re 35. So, what’s the projected outlook now?

DK: Yeah, you know, at this point, we don’t really look that much further ahead. I don’t know if I will be playing when I am 40 or not. Maybe. But, right now, I never thought we would be around this long so it is kind of all like gravy really. Every tour, its like, ‘Cool, I cant believe we did another tour!’ We have no plans on breaking up or anything and we’re working on a new album. But, at this point, you just never know.

SN: This is the Ska is Dead Tour. What happened to all of the ska puns? Where did those go? I mean, are you fresh out?

DK: The what?

SN: The ska puns.

DK: Oh, the ska puns. You know, they got a little tired, basically [laughs]. As far as the title of this tour, we wanted something that had ‘ska’ in it so people knew basically what it was about. Like that is important. When we were trying to name the tour, we were like ‘What do we name it?’ Every cheesy-ass ska pun’s been taken. We don’t want to do that anyways.

SN: You guys were touring up to 150 shows a year is what I read, back in ‘96-‘97.

DK: Yeah, I think back then even 200– I know we did a lot. It was crazy.

SN: Has it slowed down a lot? Has it become tougher?

DK: Yeah, we have definitely slowed down. A lot has to do with– it is like, me, I am getting older and I have a lot of other personal things in my life. I am married now and I have two kids now. So, I don’t like spending that much time away from home. A two-week tour, that is cool for me, that’s about it. About ‘96-‘97, we were busting our ass to get out and get people to know who we are. I mean, at a certain point you do 1000 shows and you realize, ‘Well, if you don’t realize who we are by now, they are never going to fucking know! So, it like why should we bust our ass playing some little town for like the fifth time and people still don’t respond. So, you’re like, ‘Forget it!’ We just play places that we know are getting pretty good. This tour is the first time we have been to Seattle and Portland in like five years, because we never had that great of shows there. So like, why should we drive 12 hours out of our way to make $300 and play in front of 40 kids? So, this time we took a chance. If we’re gonna do it, let’s do it on the Ska is Dead and see what happens. The shows are really solid; they were cool. You never know, but we are not at the point where we can just play a show and see what happens so much.

SN: I was wondering why Weird Al hasn’t parodied Mustard Plug as of yet.

DK: Weird Al hasn’t parodied Mozart yet either. So, there are certain things you just can’t fuck with [laughs].

SN: That’s true. Are you guys still friends with him? Do you plan to tour with him again, play some shows with him?

DK: Yeah, I would love to. We have really only met him twice. He has been super super nice and really cool and I would love to do shows with him. But, it is not like I have him on my cell phone. I do have respect for him, definitely.

SN: I have one more for you. I have a question book.

DK: [Laughs] Awesome! A book of questions! Brilliant!

SN: All right. Would you have one of your fingers surgically removed, if it would somehow guarantee you immunity from all other diseases?

DK: That is kind of dumb. I don’t know, how would you die then? There are too many underlying sub questions.

SN: Yeah, let’s find a better one. Would you like to be famous? In what way?

DK: Wow. Ok, it depends on how you define famous. I would like to be famous on a ground level. [Laughs] You know what I mean?

SN: I would say you guys are there, at the least.

DK: I would love to have the respect of my peers, you know, as far as people in bands and stuff like that. That’s what really matters to me. Even to the point that they think our music sucks but they respect us on some level [laughs]. That would be cool. As far as mass fame, it would definitely have its benefits, but I also know that it would have huge drawbacks. There was a point where ska was really, really big and we had a single on the radio and shit. Even that little taste of fame kinda fucked with my head. You get a little paranoid, you know. You walk into a coffee shop and someone looks at you and you’re like, ‘Oh, does he recognize me or what?’ And then you realize, look at Kurt Cobain who went like from a punk rocker kid from a small town to being huge. It would be tough. Maybe if you have a shit load of money, you could insulate yourself from all that. I think to have fame and that money; it could make you lose your mind. Especially if you come from a background where underground status is more important than fame, I think that destroyed Kurt Cobain. As far as mass fame, it is probably not a good thing.

Interviewer: Dave Sharp